- This topic has 15 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by Lnnrt1.
- Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344510RandullFlaggParticipant
The last few years environmental fud has brought proof of stake to the forefront. None of those networks will ever be as secure and decentralized as proof of work concensus.
There are certain modern POW networks that have solved the crypto trilema and have made the need for pos concensus redunant (outside of a few usecases, most of which a traditional SQL database would be easier, cheaper and better to utilize. Any programmer knows this)
Furthermore, I wholeheartedly believe POS assets will be deemed securities and be subjected to crippling regulations. It’s inevitable in my view.
How pos works goes against the very ethos of crypto. Everyone spouts off about the evils of centralized banks while pouring money into centralized projects that had ICO’s that make the fed seem like mother Theresa in comparison.
Its fine if you want to gamble some money on some cryptos to make a few bucks. Seriously. Nothing wrong with it. Its your money and that project may have the best of intentions. But leave the anti-fed sentiment at the door when you’re betting on centralized ponzie scheme horses to topple the banks.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344511Socialinfluencing
How to start a war on this sub a guide: title of this post.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344512CryptoMutantSelfie
PoS projects are all completely centralized lmao. Inb4 “muh environment!!!11”Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344513SurenRongyao
PoS is reincarnation of FiatMonday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344514edrenfro
Ok, forget the environment. How about PoW is just PoS with an extra step. In PoS, the people with the most money have the most influence in consensus. In PoW the people with the most processing power have the most influence in consensus – and they get that processing power by spending the most money.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344515o_LUCIFER_o
I will be back here in 24 hours just to read the commentsMonday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344516jazza2400
Whatever it takes for crypto to gain mass adoption. Proof of work can be green with solar energy and sand batteries. Plenty of space to utilise just needs the set-up costs.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344517M00ntoshi
The trilemma is outdated, it’s now a tetralemma actually as environmental friendliness is much more important for a network to be sucessful nowadays, not really because people are about the environment, but it’s the possible attack vector for buttcoiners and governments to ban crypto …Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344518catablogger
POW uses power – some of that might come from renewables but some of it does not. This is not FUD, it is FACT.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344519thedarkpampers
That’s true. I work at the fiat mine and I get 4 figures in return every month.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344520iPhone40
The problem with people’s view on “energy” is that Bitcoin can run on nuclear power and people will say it’s a waste.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344521Kilv3r
I really don’t see a reason where POS and POW projects can’t coexist. They serve a different purpose and big corporations will never opt for decentralization that’s for sure. POW projects will be smaller and community driven where POS will be more corporate friendly. Yes I know BTC is the biggest POW project but I think we can put Bitcoin as it’s own entity. People who actually care about decentralization and p2p transactions will use POW projects and people who want to use Meta’s new web3 VR Metaverse gym simulator and buy Ape NFTs will use POS projects.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344522xcryptogurux
What we want from money is reciprocal equity, not absolute equality.
People who **work** to create more value should duly gain more monetary value as a consequence than those who create less value. Who determines what’s more valuable? We validate and duly reward each other’s proof of work. We do this every day throughout our lives. Free market. Centralized issuance and manipulation of money itself within hierarchical monetary systems interfere with this free market process.
The difference in Bitcoin is that few with the means cannot arbitrarily create money at no cost to themselves and steal from you the value you’ve acquired through your work and time. There’s no interference with the free market process of creation, distribution and exchange of monetary value.
What’s the root problem with fiat money Satoshi sought to fix? Trust, as a consequence of two things,
1- Centralized, focused issuance and control of money supply and monetary policy
2- Trivial cost of issuance
We cannot build a sustainable economy predicated on money created from nothing. While issuance entails no cost, the money remains at the mercy of the basest of human qualities, self-seeking greed. All corruptive tendencies of fiat money are a direct consequence of the trivial cost to issue infinite money. We’ve had 3800 fiat currencies. They’ve all eventually collapsed to nothing, from whence they came.
Satoshi’s proof-of-work algorithm solved for these two flaws by implementing [an ingenious cost of issuance algorithm](https://imgur.com/eFwM54) that keeps every actor honest and perpetually scales in proportion with Bitcoin’s value as a monetary network—the higher Bitcoin’s value, the higher the cost of issuance, & vice versa.
Proof-of-work requires those who acquire the new supply of money to **continually** input real-world work and cover recurring operational costs, ensuring that those who receive the new supply of money cannot keep hoarding without significant cost to themselves. Miners are forced by the game theory embedded into the protocol to redistribute Bitcoin into the market.
Any system where the creation of money entails no work/cost would be fiat 2.0 all over again, a system where wealth equals power, where the rich forever get richer, more powerful and the poor get poorer.
Miners input work and recurring costs to find blocks and receive compensation for their work in securing the network, however, blocks are validated by full node users, not miners. Full nodes enforce the rules — accept/reject blocks found by miners — and hold the power to keep miners honest.
In proof-of-work, wealth != power
The lifeblood of civilization, money, backed by the lifeblood and language of the universe — energy and mathematics. This is a pretty big idea, bigger than the present scope of humanity and it’s an idea with eternal merit beyond the bounds of our planet. In a hard-coded system such as Bitcoin, these universal elements ensure the protocol is not subject to human control/manipulation. Proof-of-work admits of no corruption or privileges.
Proof-of-stake is a regressive hermetic system abstracted from any interface with the real world that walks back on Satoshi’s solution. Those who receive the new supply of coins are not required to undertake any work or suffer recurring costs to themselves (**trivial cost of issuance**).
This causes the new supply of coins to be inevitably hoarded by those who receive them (large stakers), thereby leading to a concentration of wealth similar to the existing fiat monetary system (**focused injection of money**), and since in proof-of-stake, wealth = power, large stakers/preminers effectively assume the role of central bankers, acquiring all the new money and perpetually amplifying their power over the network.
[PoS Math Breakdown](https://imgur.com/zHG2VOW)
[Origin of PoS: Not for Bitcoin, but maybe for company shares to prevent unwarranted outside influence](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27787.0)
But the supply of bitcoin is finite and limited to 21 million. Is this not a problem?
It’s finite but divisible.
1 Bitcoin = 100 million sats
21 million Bitcoin = 2.1 quadrillion sats = 2.1 quintillion millisats
For context, the total value of all the physical money and money deposited in savings and checking accounts across the world is $40 trillion. The total value of all money in the form of all investments and derivatives is $1.3 quadrillion.
Injecting new money into the economy, as central banks do, is just an artificial way of re-dividing the aggregate monetary value within the economy inequitably, [in favor of those close to the money](https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/qa31ly/beyond_sov_bitcoin_is_the_best_money_in_history/).Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344523hodlcurecovid
Care to share what you smoking? Must be good stuff.Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344524MyNi_NotYourNi
This is a rather impressive amount of divisive stuff you’ve managed to post in one go 😄Monday, July 25th, 2022 at 06:07 #344525Lnnrt1
Multi-consensus is the future, read the “Minotaur” paper by Dr Fitzi et al.
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